THE YEAH, BUT PODCAST WITH MARC A. WOLFE

From NBA players to Olympic medalists, even the best of the best encounter their own ‘Yeah, Buts.’ Dr. Ruth Gotian reveals how these high achievers face challenges strikingly similar to our own. What’s their secret to overcoming doubts, turning setbacks into stepping stones, and maintaining a balance between relentless ambition and staying true to themselves?

About Dr. Ruth Gotian

Dr. Ruth Gotian’s extensive career has focused on optimizing success through mentorship and leadership development. She is the Chief Learning Officer, Associate Professor of Education in Anesthesiology, and former Assistant Dean of Mentoring and Executive Director of the Mentoring Academy at Weill Cornell Medicine. Hailed as an expert by Nature and Columbia University, she researches high achievers like Nobel laureates and CEOs to extract practices for peak performance. She is a contributor to Forbes, Psychology Today, and host of the “Optimizing Success” show and podcast, as well as the winner of the Thinkers50 Distinguished Achievement “Radar” Award, ranking her the #1 emerging management thinker in the world. Her impact spans publications, keynotes, awards, and books encapsulating her insights. Her latest book, Financial Times Guide to Mentoring, enables senior and aspiring executives to both give the support they need as a mentor and how to seek mentoring for themselves.

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Transcript

Dr. Ruth Gotian: And you know what, it’s good enough for an Olympic champion and a Fortune 500 CEO and a Nobel prize winner, well, it’s good enough for me. And I always make sure to surround myself with a team of mentors.

Marc Wolfe: Welcome to the Yeah, But podcast where leaders tune in when they want to be unstuck and unstoppable. I’m Marc Wolfe, president of Marc A.Wolfe Enterprises and author of Yeah, But …Cut Through the Noise to Live, Learn and Lead Better. In each episode, I interview relatable people who share their Yeah, Buts, along with their doubts, fears and alibis, and then share how to overcome them to unlock true potential.

Whether it’s personal growth, leadership challenges, or simply living with more intention. The Yeah, But Podcast is all about turning those excuses into actions. So if you’re ready to stop being held back and start moving forward, you’re in the right place. Let’s get started.

I’m excited to have Dr. Ruth Gotian on the podcast today, and one of the things that I want to kick off the podcast with, is what do you wish people knew about you sooner?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: So back in the day, elementary school is when I first became an athlete. When I really started there was no girls team for soccer, which is what I played. I had to negotiate my way onto the boys team. That negotiation, when I was 10 years old, lay the groundwork for everything else, because that’s when I realized that when I was originally told, no, it just means not yet.

Marc Wolfe: That is an amazing way to let people know what you’re about. I’d love to kind of introduce you before I read your bio. How did we meet and why are we even having a conversation at all all those years ago?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: I actually remember how we met.

Marc Wolfe: Okay.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Um, so before we’re both executive coaches and before coaching. com, there was something called WBECS and, um, you were moderating, I think, or facilitating a room and Ayse Birsel, um, who wrote the incredible books on design, the life you love design, the long life you love. She was facilitating a session on it and, uh, Ayse and I are both part of 100 Coaches, the Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches, and she invited me to attend the workshop. And you said something where you made me realize so I actually had to say who our heroes are and why and I talked about my grandmother, who’s very different from me a foot shorter. And when you look back at it, my grandmother was one of 13 women and 300 men to go to Columbia Pharmacy School. She had to really break barriers in order to get that.

Marc Wolfe: And it’s amazing how in such a short time with an interesting conversation can literally link somebody and especially when they can understand you quickly, which I know that you’ve done over your career.

So let me read a little about you. So Dr. Ruth Gotian’s extensive career has focused on optimizing success through mentorship and leadership development. She is the chief learning officer, associate professor of education and anesthesiology, and former Assistant Dean of Mentoring and Executive Director of the Mentoring Academy at Cornell Medicine.

Hailed as an expert by Nature and Columbia University, she researches high achievers like Nobel laureates and CEOs to extract practices for peak performance. She is a contributor to Forbes, Psychology Today, and the host of Optimizing Success show and podcast as well as winner of the Thinker’s 50 Distinguished Achievement Radar Award, ranking her in the number one emerging management thinker in the world.

Her impact spans publications, keynotes, awards, and books, encapsulating her insight. Her latest book, Financial Times Guide to Mentoring, enables senior and aspiring executives to get both support they need to mentor and how to seek mentoring for themselves. So you do sleep every once in a while, right?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: I sleep a lot. I need my sleep. I am not functional without my sleep.

Marc Wolfe: So, let’s talk about your yeah buts. I think your number one, yeah, but was I need help. So tell us more about that.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: One of the, yeah, buts was I don’t do downtime very well. And it came to a point, uh, about six months ago and within one or two week time span, a Nobel prize winner, an Olympic bronze medalist, And an NBA champion all told me you need to stop.

You need to go away for a few days. You need to not open your laptop. And I was like, whoa, because these people understand the hustle and grind better than anyone. And they were the ones saying, It’s getting too much. It’s you need to just stop and reset.

That was a, a wake up moment for me for sure.

Marc Wolfe: To hear that from people who are at that level, how did it make you feel about insight from other people just like you as a coach provide insight and perspective to others?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Yeah, well, it’s because of that, that I listen and I listen extremely well.

And if one person says that, yeah, okay, when two people start telling it to you. Yeah. Start to listen. By the third one, I was like, okay. It was a third one within a very short period of time.

Marc Wolfe: So what does that teach you about yourself?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: That I need to learn about the power of the pause. Since then, what I started doing is one day on the weekends. I do not open my laptop.

Marc Wolfe: So what kind of beliefs did you have about your own capacity and desire to achieve that you might have had to see at a different perspective?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: I just saw that there’s more to do, there’s more to do, there’s more to do, I’ll never finish, I’ll never finish, there’s more to do, there’s another idea, there’s always more that you can do. And there is always more that you can do. It just doesn’t all have to be done this week.

Marc Wolfe: The part that always amazes me, how impressed you still are, even though you’ve been around so many different people that have accomplished so much, you’re still humble enough and still impressed to be around such great thinkers.

I think you can sense that it’s part of your upbringing, right? Tell us more just about how you keep this balance between the success that you’ve generated or happened and just who you are

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Well, I think the success is a journey. Um, I reached one goal. Now I’m on to the next one, which is why I wrote the Financial Times, Guide to Mentoring. I wrote that book and I have a proposal for the next book already with my literary agents. So there’s always more, to do.

One of it I do get to hang out with incredible people, right? The NBA champions, the Olympians, Nobel Prize winners, and they are extremely grounded in who they are. So if, if I’m going to be star-struck, we’re not going to have the meaningful conversation.

And at the end of the day, they’re just regular people. Same fears. Same concerns, same excitements as everybody else, and we each have our job to do because we each have our superpower. We each have our skill.

As the social scientist who’s able to communicate with these people and extracting their incredible stories and teaching those lessons to other people, one of those things that I realized was that all these people with their Nobel prizes, with their championships, with their Olympic medals. They still surrounded themselves with a team of mentors, people who could pick them up and who could guide them.

And you know what? Good enough for it. Olympic champion and a Fortune 500 CEO and a Nobel prize winner. Well, it’s good enough for me. And I always make sure to surround myself with a team of mentors.

Marc Wolfe: It’s interesting that you wrote about something that literally could change a career or literally a life, they would be a different person thanks to being mentored or being a mentor.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Absolutely. And there’s a ton of research on this that shows that 9 out of 10 people who are mentored do better in their jobs.

They get promoted more often. They’re happier in their work. They get bigger salary increases. They have lower burnout. So the research on this is crystal clear. But I just had an article that I wrote with my co author and an officer from the Army,

and the premise People are moving around a lot. Now people are not staying in the same job. So if people think that their mentor is going to be their boss, their leader, but that boss is going to be gone, then who are you going to have? But that mentor can stay with you throughout your career. And that mentor might be more important than your leader. And I think that is so critical. And we haven’t as individuals and as organizations paid as much attention as we should have to mentorship.

And we should, because it makes the employees better and it helps the organization as well because it helps the organization retain these employees. And, you know, employees are expensive to recruit and onboard. So if you can keep these best people through mentorship, why aren’t we doing a better job at it?

And that was the premise. That’s why Andy Lopata and I wrote that book, Financial Times Guide to Mentoring.

Marc Wolfe: That’s amazing. And it’s great that you’re taking the time to do something that is overlooked, but actually it’s not as hard as people think.

You know, one of the yeah, buts you mentioned was, yeah, but I don’t feel successful. Tell us more about specific situations where you didn’t feel successful and what triggered even saying this.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Well, one of the things I had this dream since I was in my 20s, that I was going to get my doctorate because there were people around me who I respected, that’s what they had and I thought that’s what you’re supposed to do. And life happened. You know, I got my master’s, I got married, I had kids, I was working. It was not the right time. And I was like, I really don’t want to do this. I really don’t want to write papers. And at the age of 43, I went back to school while working full time, and I got my doctorate, and I wrote a lot of papers, and it wasn’t easy, but I did it.

And that’s when things started to change, because that’s when I realized when you get your doctorate, you start creating new knowledge. And then the question is, so now what are you going to do with all this new knowledge you’ve created? And that’s when I realized, I am now in control of my future. What I do with it or not, it’s my decision, so I decided I was going to run with it, and that was the last book, The Success Factor, and obviously now this one, but success was always, I thought, what other people do, right?

I mean, I’m in New York City, right? We have the academic types by Columbia. We have all the corporate types in midtown. We have all the Broadway people. That’s everyone else, and I kept feeling like an outsider looking in. I was like, I want to be part of that. I couldn’t figure out how to do it and then I figured out I didn’t have to figure out how to be a corporate executive.

I had to figure out what the next step was. And once I figured out what the next step was, I had to do that and then the next step and the next step and the next step and the next step.

Marc Wolfe: Hey there, it’s time for a quick break. While we’re diving into how to live, learn, and lead better, I wanted to let you in on something I’m really excited about. If you’ve ever found yourself stuck in the yeah, but cycle, those moments where excuses get in your way of your potential, my new book, Yeah, But… Cut through the Noise to Live, Learn, and Lead Better is for you.

The book is packed with practical strategies, real stories, and actionable advice to help you stop making excuses and start making progress. Whether you’re a leader, a learner, or just someone looking to cut through the noise, Yeah, But has something for you. And here’s the best part. For a limited time, you can grab a chapter for free.

Just head over to my website at www.marcawolfe.com. / book to get started. Readers have already said that the perspective and stories guided them to get unstuck and move forward. All right, let’s get back to the show and dive into more ways to break through those yeah, but moments.

Well, because you said it’s a journey, and if it’s going to be about knowledge, when do you stop learning? And I like to remind my clients, so it’s like, take your age. And cut it in half, what do you wish you knew at that age, right?

So what would you say to your former self about that unsuccessful feeling and how you overcame it?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: I think the, that feeling and that always being the outside looking in was I never asked people, well, how did you get there and what did you do and how did you know that was right for you?

And now all I do is ask questions. How’d you do that? How’d you know to do that? What did you try before? What worked? What didn’t work?

Marc Wolfe: But society doesn’t want you to ask questions. They tell you you’re supposed to have the answers and AI and all these other ways. But look what we learn through curiosity, perspective, we learn about ourselves, we learn about others.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: The people who are telling you or making you believe that you’re supposed to know all the answers, don’t have any of the answers themselves and it becomes a game of smoke and mirrors and they’re trying to hide their insecurities by pushing them on to you.

Marc Wolfe: And that’s the beauty of being consistent with who you are, having the ability to admit you’re willing to learn and there’s things to be learned and that’s the beauty. And even in, Yeah, But we talk about how, if you’re moving ahead, right, version one is better than version none to break and fall, fail forward to go and continue to try things..

Dr. Ruth Gotian: But the good thing about working with Olympians is that they understand that the failure, it’s not a failure, it’s a learning opportunity.

If you think about the Olympics, go to any, I don’t care what sport you’re, you’re watching. You will always see the same thing. They finished doing their competition, whatever they’re doing. And you will see the athlete runs to their coach. It’s not just a high five, a hug, good job. Because there’s always an opportunity to improve and these athletes, they’re looking for ways to shave fractions of seconds off their time. And the only way they can do that is by getting that feedback.

Marc Wolfe: You know, one of the other things you mentioned, , was your, Yeah, But I don’t know where to start. So what was going through your mind during that period of not knowing where to start?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Um, So one of the things was when I made that decision to go back to school, first of all, making that decision, I said, I need to do something.

What’s my concentration going to be in? Which schools am I going to apply to? Do I need to take a standardized test again? You know, so many questions.

And that’s when I realized I don’t need to have the answer to all the questions. I just need to make a list of the questions. It has to be a running list. Did I start? Just start. And it was really quite fascinating because I eventually came to the realization that I wanted to go to Columbia Teachers College for many reasons.

Um, and I actually wrote a letter to the president of the university.

I said, look, I want to get my doctorate. I work full time. I have a family. This, you know, doing this in six years is really just not, not working for me, um, because I’m working all day and I’m going to go to school.

Do you have some sort of executive program? I didn’t see anything on the website. She referred my letter to, uh, Dr. Tom Rock, who at that time was the head of admissions. He invited me in for a meeting

I went in there and I think that meeting changed my life because I said to him, I think I want to do my major, my concentration in X. And he said, well, tell me about yourself. And I start telling him all the things that I’m doing and I want to do. And he said, I don’t think that’s what you need. I think you need adult learning and leadership.

And that led me down the rabbit hole of figuring out what that was and I was like, of course, this is exactly what I need to do. And I started reading everything I could about it, realizing it was tailor-made for me and then realizing that all of the big thought leaders and theorists in this area were either trained or taught at Columbia, at teacher’s college. And that’s when I said, I have to get in. I have to get in, do what you need to do.

Marc Wolfe: What made you think that going to the president, changing this, what was in your mind at that time?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Look, they take five people and they didn’t have exactly what I was looking for, but it’s that whole thinking of, well, maybe it can be done.

What I also did, and this was at the recommendation of Dr. Tom Rock, who I had that incredible meeting with, he said, take classes as an unaffiliated student for a year.

You pay tuition. If you get accepted, you can always transfer that in. But now this also proves that you can work at this level. So I started taking those classes. The professors got to know me. And then I started meeting with professors one on one. I said, I’m applying. This is what I want to do. But I was, I didn’t know anyone who was going back to school and working full time and wanting to do what I did. And I wasn’t even sure what it is I wanted to do.

I just knew this was going to help me get there. And then it was another conversation in the hallway with a student. And he said, well, what do you want to do next? I was like, I don’t know. My goal right now is to finish this doctorate. That’s the goal. I haven’t figured out what’s next yet. He said, well, what are you a thought leader in?

And I still remember this conversation because I talked about in my book, The Success Factor. I said, what’s a thought leader? I had no idea. I had no idea what a thought leader was. And he said, it’s something you are uniquely qualified to talk about. And that’s when I realized I needed to be uniquely qualified to talk about something in a way no one else was talking about.

And that made me hyper-niche the way I was communicating the articles I was writing. So now, if you Google speaker thought leader on success or on mentoring, my name will come up because I have communicated so much hundreds of articles about it and podcasting webinars and LinkedIn lives and keynotes and all of that because it was that hallway conversation.

And as I said at the beginning, I listen, I don’t have all the answers. But I listen to what comes up

Marc Wolfe: Ruth, you’re exactly who you say you are, right? You’re tenacious and overcomer. Somebody who’s already looked at their yeah, buts and say, okay, that’s just a not now,

it’s not a never. It’s such a pleasure to have people like you on the podcast that show that age is not a barrier. Background’s not a barrier. We are a barrier to ourselves. And if we don’t get around coaches and mentors and other people who can help guide us, we literally are shortchanging our capabilities and capacity to be better than we are currently.

And so grateful for that. Anything you want to close with as we kind of wrap this up?

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Well, I’m really excited, um, to be here again, I think four years or so after we had that initial conversation. I’m really excited about this mentoring book that’s coming out Financial Times Guide to Mentoring because it was the book.

I was looking for but couldn’t find so I decided to write it. Um, and for those who want to check it out, download a free chapter, get the scorecard to see if their mentoring relationship is as good as it could be. All of that is available on the book’s website, which is mentoring- guide. com.

Marc Wolfe: And we’re going to have all your contact information and things in the show notes.

So people can be able to reach out to you, ask you questions. Because I know you’re as busy as you are. You’re very accessible. You do want to continue to help people. Ruth, thank you. Dr. Ruth Gotian and her new book. Very excited. And it won’t be her last, if I’m even guessing.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: That’s right.

Marc Wolfe: Thanks for being here.

Dr. Ruth Gotian: Thanks for having me.

Marc Wolfe: Thank you for listening to the Yeah, But Podcast. If today’s episode provided valuable perspective on how to overcome the excuses that can hold you back, let us know in the comments. Remember, it’s not about the yeah buts, it’s about finding ways to live, learn, and lead better every day. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who could use a little kick to get past their own yeah buts.

And don’t forget to follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And for even more tips, connect with me at marcawolfe. com/podcast. Until next time, keep challenging those excuses and keep moving forward.

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